Guest feature! Lucy Olsman interviews poet, writer, spoken-word artist, beatboxer and best friend Jonathan Sijl

Mar 23

Jonathan Sijl, born in Zwolle, the Netherlands, is a twenty-five year old poet, writer, spoken-word artist, beatboxer, and my best friend. We met in university six years ago, when we both began our bachelor studies in English Language and Culture in Groningen. It was the height of Covid, and most of our classes were online. But amidst the turmoil of curfews and forced isolation, we decided to begin a running group with a few others. This quickly became a wine-drinking group. Throughout the years, we’ve made many friends, and lost a good few too. But Jonathan and I always stuck together. And it is my pleasure to introduce him to you.

Hi Jonathan! Please describe yourself as a poet in three words, and explain them.

I had to think about this one! Initially, my answer was authentic, open, and honest, but I’m not sure if that covers it. “Up to interpretation” might be a better fit. I am a firm believer of the concept of ignoring the author when reading a text. I apply the same idea of “up to interpretation” to my own work. Whoever hears me read a poem aloud, whoever consumes my work, its meaning is up to their own interpretation.

Why would you say you’re a firm believer in ignoring the author?

During our masters we were taught both ways: to take into account the author of the work, and to forget about them. In my case, I enjoy hearing someone’s own interpretations. I can really appreciate it when someone connects to my work without knowing anything about my life.

Can you describe what went on in your mind when inspiration for this poem (The Sandwich and the Sidewalk) struck you? How did you come up with the idea of connecting the Christian God with a homeless person?

I occasionally chat with homeless people in the city (Groningen). There’s a few I recognize as well. This particular one I’ve talked to a lot over the past couple of years. It’s interesting how people tend to look over homeless people as part of a city. You have your benches, you have your parks, and your homeless people as part of the cityscape. But at one point, these people were also children that probably went to school, had a family, and they had a whole history that led them to this moment. Whereas my history led to this moment as well, where I buy this person a sandwich.

In a way, God, for believers of the Christian faith, also becomes an inherent part of their landscape, something invisible that is always there. In this sense, a link can be made between God and homeless people. It also reminded me of a plot point of the movie Epic, where you have all these mythological characters like Jack Frost, Santa Clause, the tooth fairy, the Easter bunny, etc. only exist as visible and tangible beings, as long as peoplebelieve in them. Their power comes from faith itself. If they were forgotten, they would become invisible. In retrospect, I think it's a similar idea between me and God. It's been a few years since I've last called myself a Christian, and my perspective on God changed a lot over the years. In the case of this poem, I enjoyed mixing up various perspectives, and ways that I've felt over the years.

What type of Christian were you?

An ashamed one. No, just kidding. I was a mix of evangelical/pentecostal. This is a type of modern Christian that believes in a very personal connection with God, and tries to see God as an all-loving being. They also believe in spiritual gifts from the holy spirit, like the power of healing through prayer, the power of prophecy, or speaking in tongues (the language of Angels, as I understood it).

Speaking in tongues?

This is the idea that you begin to speak in a certain way after the holy spirit has ‘touched’ you. It was one of the reasons I stayed on board with my faith for so long, as I volunteered in my church. After the services, people would get prayed for. The pastor would lay their hands on a person and pray, which could be quite intense. At times, these prayers would even result in the recipient of prayer 'collapsing in the holy spirit' which meant they would physically collapse after the Holy Spirit touched them. It would be my job to catch the person and lower them gently to the ground, as they seemed to truly be affected by an intensely spiritual experience.

What was the moment where you decided to step away from faith?

There was always a constant divide between teenage-me as a growing boy, and a boy who was trying to be a good Christian. Romantic feelings, and all that stuff, felt like it was a sin. Discussing it, and just about anything to do with it, already felt sinful to me, so I would avoid talking about it, or feeling it at all. My family has always been a small, tight-knit group, consisting of my mum, my brother, and me, after my dad passed away when I was five. We would firmly believe in having a strong foundation together through our faith, and I felt that anything that deviated from that could potentially destabilise the bond of our family as a whole.

I reached a point in my first year of my studies, when I realised I tried too hard, for too long, to combine what I believed in my faith, and what I learned outside of it. There were a lot of factors involved that I haven't mentioned yet, but it nonetheless led to my realization that I could no longer call myself a Christian.

The final stanza, to me, has an undertone of anger or revenge. What does it mean to you?

I didn’t feel angry writing it. It was more a sense of disappointment and pity. In this stanza, God is just another person that wants to be loved, that wants affection. You look at this figure that you’ve been dreading encountering for a long time, and it’s a massive anticlimax. All the stress and the struggling with faith were for nothing in the end, because God, here, is also just a guy.

The final few stanzas could be read in an angry way. When performing this poem as spoken-word, the lines

How did you fall so far?

Was your throne,

Your horse,

Your holiness

So high?

can be made to sound angry. But it’s good to remember that these words occur in a moment of tenderness, during a humbling experience. “He shook my hand, and I offered him a hug. /I held him for a moment, and I asked him...” It’s a moment of compassion. It can feel embarrassing for a lot of people to ask for help, or food. And this homeless man has to ask for it every day.

What message are you hoping to bring across to your readers?

In both life, and poetry: Try to stay open minded. Life is a lot more fun and interesting when you look at things from different perspectives. Listen to people and what they have to say. Ask questions. Oftentimes, the questions people ask say a lot more than answers.

Amen to that!

Benne van der Velde

After thoroughly enjoying the Dutch slam poetry scene in the early and mid 2000s (with wins in 7 cities and eventually a place in the Nationals of 2012) and performances at the Lowlands-, Uitmarkt- and Parade festivals a/o, Benne successfully made the transition from the stage to paper by signing his first publishing deal in 2005. Since then 4 publishing houses (kleine Uil, Douane, Nadorst and Stanza) released volumes of his poetry. For a 5th (Passage) he co-edited an anthology of satirical/pamphlet poetry with fellow poets Daniel Dee and Alexis de Roode.

As a member of the artist movement ‘Het Ongeboren Idee’ he helped to organize (and was part of/presented) cultural lo-fi festivals, exhibitions, making a movie, monthly poetry stages in his hometown of Vlaardingen (Poezie in De Steeg), Rotterdam (De Poetsclub) and Nijmegen (Late Letteren Live) + a talent show for bands.

In 2002 and 2003 he studied ‘writing for performance’ at the vocational university of the Arts in the city of Utrecht (HKU) and as a result saw 3 of his theater plays make it to a stage. Writer Hiekelien van den Herik and he co-wrote a knight spectacle play complete with real choreographed sword fights, men in heavy plate armor and more great stuff like that. Theater-/enactment group Ridderspoor performed said play in 2004 and 2005 at Het Archeon, during De Kasteeldagen and at an Elfia-fantasy fair. He also gave numerous poetry and rap workshops at schools and other institutions. There were a lot of collabs too, for example voice-over work for a Rock Opera, a monumental art project for which he partnered up with the artist Erwin Adema and thrice alongside the R.J.S.O (The Rotterdam Youth Symphony Orchestra).

Benne has been an editor for several literary magazines (Krakatau, Renaissance and Op Ruwe Planken), at one time he and his wife owned a secondhand bookstore, he’s been the official poet laureate for his hometown of Vlaardingen and released his first and only Dutch rap-EP in 2011. In 2012 he rapped his way into the finals of Art Rocks. An EP with songs in English followed in 2021. A year later he started translating Dutch musical and lyrical classics from Dutch into English, and vice versa. Some of his short sci-fi and fantasy stories have found their way to medium related websites, magazines and anthology’s.

According to the poet himself rewriting his own poetry, lyrics and prose in English somehow feels like the next logical step in his career, a way to open up to the world at large. Which is both exhilarating and terrifying. So far several of these translations have been published in Bebarbar, Hare’s paw, Festivalforpoetry, Punt Volat, The Dewdrop, The Dillydoun Review and Months to Years a/o.

In everyday (some claim real) life he worked as an industrial tank cleaner, in pest control, on a garbage truck, driving a forklift, in a chemical waste facility, on a Ferry and 10 years as a bartender in a cannabis bar. At the time of writing this resume he can be found at home or in the hospital battling throat cancer. He’s been off the Herb since 2008, has a wife, 2 dogs, mild anxiety issues and likes to read every sci-fi and fantasy classic he can find.

www.linkedin.com/in/benne-van-der-velde-8b17a7296

The poet/lyricist and author Rob Chrispijn: ‘Benne writes sentences that stick; clean, dark and intense. This way a poem lasts!’

The poet Philip Hoorne on the website Poetry rapport: ‘There’s a genius hiding in Benne van der Velde, those are the Good Tidings of today. Amen.’

https://www.doubledutchmagazine.com